Building mission-driven AI without losing the human touch

Interview Summary

From Law to Tech: A Mission Takes Shape

01:01: Claudine traces her path from award-winning lawyer to tech founder, motivated by inequities facing overlooked communities and a desire to design fairer systems that unlock potential at scale.

Why Early Bird: Infrastructure for One-to-One Support

03:14: Early Bird builds AI infrastructure for employability services, focusing on time savings for frontline staff, deeper participant engagement, and better outcomes across government- and privately-funded programs.

Keeping Mission Central: Culture by Design

06:21: Claudine advises founders to define culture early, co-create values with the first team, and embed them into hiring, feedback, goals, and product decisions to prevent drift and stay aligned to a north star.

Upskilling & Re-entry

12:53: Claudine describes trends in AI for entrepreneurs and job seekers. She recommends hands-on practice with tools, recognizing non-automatable careers, and targeted upskilling—especially for economically inactive individuals returning to work.

Transcript

Barrak (00:36)

Hi, Claudine. Welcome to the Joy of Business. I'm so happy to be sitting here having a conversation with you. Absolutely. I think that your journey from being a lawyer to an entrepreneur is something that a lot of people can relate. Going from a professional position, working in an industry that you're very familiar with.

Claudine (00:41)

Thanks for having me, Barack. I appreciate it.

Barrak (00:55)

Can you tell us a little bit about that path that you took?

Claudine (01:01)

Oh gosh, yeah, a bit of a long story, but essentially my dream was to become a lawyer. So at the age of 11, I decided, right, that's the career for me. And I essentially kind of made choices along the way in terms of subjects that I would study and experiences that I kind of went out and grasped to ensure that I would end up in a career in law I was successful in that, worked at one of the best law firms in the UK, won multiple awards for my work and yeah, really had a great career. However, my experiences of getting there were not the same as most of my peers. So I found that actually I was one of, well in my firm at the time, one of none, but one of very few in the industry that had come from a low associate economic background. Very few black female lawyers at the time as well, which I think is improving. And I had had a bunch of different challenges personally as well. And so for me, I always kind of felt a sense of duty to kind of look at how we can create more just systems to make sure that people from overlooked communities and people that had had experiences similar to mine weren't held back, still had the same access to opportunities, still had the same opportunity to have their potential unlocked so that they could lead really thriving careers. And so alongside my career, I'd always kind of worked on different projects, worked with different groups, looked at how we could support people into their careers and from non-traditional backgrounds. And that culminated in falling into tech to build solutions for those groups. And it kind of just evolved from there. And that was kind of the start of my tech journey.

Barrak (02:53)

And tell me how you arrived at Early Bird. I know that you've done a lot of work with supporting people in getting gainfully employed and you've done a lot of work around supporting those communities that you, the underrepresented, marginalized, minoritized communities that you mentioned. How did all that create the basis for Early Bird AI?

Claudine (03:14)

Yeah, early bird is essentially, we're kind of building the AI infrastructure for one-to-one support services specifically focused at the moment on employability support. So people progressing into employment and there are loads of different types of programs where the ultimate outcome is for someone to move into employment, sustain that employment and therefore lead a more thriving life. Where that has all come from is kind of linked to my own experiences where I didn't come from a wealthy family, didn't have connections. Growing up, I had to kind of figure out career pathways and things like that for myself. Left home when I was 16 and so then had all of those challenges, which yeah, I guess, meant that I had a particular perspective on the world and experiences that I in my bones and to my core just felt, just didn't seem right. And so had that kind of social justice piece ingrained into me from quite early on. And then fast forward, I ended up designing and delivering employment support programs through local and central government contracts that I bid for and won. And so that meant that I was on the ground also delivering these programs, working directly with people in need of this support who come from a range of different backgrounds and experiences, can't afford, you know, private support that they would have to pay for. And so I think my own experiences of being in the system and having to rely on those support services, as well as them being on the front line and delivering those support services, and also kind of thinking about how you design what that support looks like culminated in the idea for Early Bird, where it was like, actually, there are lots and lots of organizations that are delivering these support programs, whether that's through government funding or private funding. And traditionally, they are operating in a relatively analog way. How can we look at innovating and supporting those organizations that are doing that work, rather than being another organization doing that work?

So that's kind of where we got to and we started doing more research and speaking to more people that were actually delivering those services to really uncover where are the really gritty deep pain points. And a lot of that was around just not having the time that they would want to engage with the participants on their programs. And so we just looked at how we can give frontline staff that time back in different ways so that they are levelled up and empowered to essentially deliver the best quality support.

Barrak (05:39)

It's so clear that you are deeply invested in the social justice, the equitable inclusion of a diverse population into the workforce. And you've built that into the DNA of early bird AI. And I'm just curious, what would you advise other purpose-driven founders especially if they want to align their personal values with their business values to avoid mission drift, to make sure that it is a core part of both what they do, the outcomes they deliver, and how they do the work. Like how, from your experience, would you advise those people at the early stages of formulating their business?

Claudine (06:21)

So I think my starting point is that it's never too early to really think about the culture of your business. So I've run workshops for founders before where it's literally just them at the moment. They've just got an idea and we're speaking about the culture they want to build, right? And it starts with you. And so I think you have to be really clear on what type of organization you're wanting to build, what those values look like. If you've got an early team, for me, it was quite important to make sure that the team were involved in crafting those values and shaping that at the outset, particularly that early team that feel like they are part of the membrane of the company. And so, yeah, making sure that they're kind of bought into that and have a role in shaping all of that. And then it's what do you do with those values? Do you have those in a handbook and you shut that or does that run through everything that you do? So some practical things that we do, we hire based on those values.

We fire based on those values. We have shout outs and like stand ups and team meetings and things like that where people are able to kind of call out those behaviors that they see in other members of the team, again, linked back to our values. So it's at the forefront of everything all the time. Every quarter when we kind of kick off the next quarter's goals, we revisit those values and talk about where we're trying to get to and things like that. And so it's not something that's kind of just on a piece of paper shoved away in a drawer or on a wall that you start ignoring because it becomes just part of the artwork in the office or something like that. So I think it's really looking at how you embed those things into the way that you work. And then beyond just those values, it's then looking at the actual culture. And I think with the...if you are genuinely mission driven, then that should be kind of baked into everything that you do. So are you building, when you're building your product and you you've got a new feature, how is that feature linked to you achieving that mission? And sometimes it's not like a direct link because you need to achieve something to then get to the next point or something like that. But generally speaking, you should be always kind of going back to is this actually getting us to our north star? Is this actually keeping us on mission and empowering the rest of your team to call out when they think it's not as well so that you can have those discussions?

Barrak (08:38)

Makes a lot of sense and it makes me think also of just the use of AI is such an ethical thing. So on the one hand, it's doing so much work to, as you said, to get people's time back, to reclaim people's time, especially when those menial, repetitive tasks, it's really optimizing people's work and that's something that you all are really committed to. At the same time, with employability and empowering unemployed, underemployed people to gain the skills, to access the resources, to get those jobs, there is that fundamental human element, the compassion, the empathy, the listening. And obviously, early bird AI handles a lot of administrative things. I'm just wondering, what do you do to balance that human element with that AI optimization, especially looking ahead to all the possibilities and all the pain points that you could be solving down the line.

Claudine (09:33)

Yeah, of course. So to the way that early bird works at the moment, essentially, we've got an AI agent that can have conversations with the users of a service. So a participant on the program can have conversations with our AI agent. And the purpose of that agent is to collect information on behalf of their advisor, surface that information to their advisor so that advisor can prepare accordingly for appointments or look at real time interventions and things like that and the system is able to identify specific support needs, suggest interventions that might be appropriate, and when they're in their appointments, capture all of those conversations and spin up all the relevant case notes and things like that. So with all of that and with the way that we're approaching building the technology, we have a really strong focus on human in the loop. So essentially what that means is we are recognising that in these services, that human component, that compassion that you're talking about, that empathy side, that human judgment for that particular individual's context is still really important. And you, I think, can move so much closer to a hyper-personalized service where it's operating at scale because you have embedded AI, but that human component is then what takes that to the next level. Do you know I mean? And so- Yeah, absolutely.

So for us, it's how can we empower that frontline advisor to deliver that hyper-personalized service, rather than it being how can we replace that advisor to have this AI automated service that might be a bit more personalized than some of the kind of traditional ways of delivering the service, but will, I think, be risky in particular. Be quite risky because you, there's only so much you can do, I think, in terms of the guardrails that you can put in place and things like that. And like I said, that that human judgment to kind of say, okay, well, the systems identify that these are the areas of support this person needs. These are the kind of interventions that someone might need. But actually, having spoken to that person, I actually think, you know, that one's not appropriate, or this is actually a bit more appropriate or something like that. So I think that's that's still important.

I think in the future, 100 % I think is scope for some of the kind of least complex cases to be dealt with in a kind of AI automated way. We have a concept in employability with like rag ratings and so someone comes into a service and they're kind of green. That's usually someone that's actually doesn't need much help to get into work. So you can imagine that actually the support they might need might be kind of preparing for an interview that they've already secured or something like that. And they could have a simulated conversation to kind of prepare for that interview and they're happy. So something like that, you could imagine that there's a world where there's a certain group of people that don't need as much support. But I think for the most part, where you're talking about people that have a range of complex challenges, you just do need that human judgment. So it's really about how you make sure that those humans can deliver that in the best way.

Barrak (12:19)

That makes a lot of sense. I know that early bird and yourself were recently recognized for your work in upskilling around AI, upskilling the people seeking employment around AI. And I was just curious, you all are on the ground filtering what people need in order to optimize themselves for the workforce.

Are there any trends that you are noticing that people should be aware about that they should be upskilling themselves in educating themselves in? What are what are you seeing?

Claudine (12:52)

It's a really difficult one because it's all moving so quickly. I was speaking to a friend of mine who works for a very large corporate that I won't name, but household name corporate. And he was saying that they now have a policy where in every single interview process, one of the first questions is, tell me about the last time you used AI and what you achieved with it. Like, what did you do with AI? And so if you're not, if you're going into interviews today where you're not able to speak about how you are using AI in some way, shape or form. You're already putting yourself at a disadvantage in comparison to what's going to be expected from employers and then also in terms of your peers that will be going for those jobs. So I think for me, a lot of it is still just try the tools, just actually play around with them, look at what you can do with the different tools that exist, whether that's kind of the chat GBTs of the world and others are available, or the kind of vibe coding tools, like whatever your kind of area is, just get stuck in and use different tools. Because I think once you start using them, you start to understand a little bit more about how they work, what's possible, where the future's going, where the limitations still are. But also I think it can support with reinforcing kind of what skill sets you have that AI just can't replace. And so what you have to offer to an employer that is already, you know, has rolled out Microsoft Copilot. Cool. That's what they're doing. That's what they're using. You know how that all works. And so you're able to kind of talk about either how you can use that in your job or what you bring that is over and above what the AI systems that they're using can bring that kind of thing. Obviously I'm talking very, very broadly. It depends on the roles that you're going for and the industries that you're running and things like that. But that's kind of my advice on the AI side. And then the other thing is there are still a lot of careers that are not capable of being displaced by AI. So just thinking really broadly about what are the areas that are in demand, either because we just have a shortage of skills and AI is not going to answer those challenges. So immediate one that comes to mind is around construction and some of the other kind of trade skills, through the roof demand but you're not going to suddenly have an AI robot in your home doing all your electrical work, right? So if you're open to those kinds of careers, I think there's huge opportunity. And then I think in industry, there are some silos, I think, and I think that there are also going to be new roles created. But I do think that there will be a bit of a transition period where there will be roles that are displaced. And I think there will be a short to medium term challenge for a lot of people where the roles are fewer and fewer and further, fewer and far between.

Barrak (15:34)

Yeah, and I feel like that's also a great opportunity when you talk about industries that are not yet fully locked and loaded in the AI adoption. It's also an opportunity for entrepreneurs, similar to the work that you've done yourself, to optimize things for those people. Because obviously there's still things that maybe they are grappling with, that they're dealing with, that really they could use a hand of an entrepreneur who's really passionate about helping those kinds of industries. One of the populations, and along those lines, one of the populations that early bird AI contends with or works with is what is known as the economically inactive folks. So these could be people who might be students or chronically ill, people who are early retirees. Even caregivers who go out of the job market. And I understand that there are needs for them to generate income to pursue employment in some respect. And it seems like an entrepreneurial path would be a really viable option for them. So I was wondering if you could speak to that, if Early Bird AI ever helps support that that kind of a career path or that kind of a journey. And on the flip side, what opportunities are there for entrepreneurs who want to serve those economically inactive folks?

Claudine (16:56)

In short, yes. So for us, employment includes self-employment. It's how can you essentially generate an income for yourself and that you can sustain and then grow. So yeah, we've one of our partners, for example, the majority of the core job outcomes that they achieved on a program that they implemented early bird were people moving into self-employment, setting up their businesses and started to generate revenue as kind of, you know, small businesses, which is amazing. And I'm naturally a big fan of people starting up their own businesses. It's not for everyone. So that's one of the one of the challenge areas, but I think the flexibility that it can afford for people who, for example, are primary caregivers and things like that can be really, really valuable where, yeah, people just kind of need something that's a bit more on their own terms.

So I think with people who are economically inactive, one of the opportunities, I guess, to support that cohort is probably around kind of that upskilling piece. So typically, if you're economically inactive, you've been out of the workforce for a relatively long period of time. And because, as we've discussed, things are moving so quickly, it's how do you help those people understand what's in demand from the labour market and then how to prepare for that. So whether that's young people that have never entered the market or there's a growing challenge with young people with mental health challenges that have meant that they're outside of the labour market, they're supporting them through those challenges but then also looking at how you can kind of upskill them people that are primary caregivers and haven't been out of the labour market for the first couple of years of their children's life, for example, how can you then kind of reintegrate them back into that labour market? So I think those are the kinds of opportunities that are out there to kind of support those groups, which is essentially what our customers do.

Barrak (18:52)

So you're not just a startup founder. You're also members of many communities. I see you also as a community leader. Why does staying involved remain an important part of being an entrepreneur?

Claudine (19:06)

Yeah, good question. for me, communities for me, like a way for me to just keep learning. And I'm in different types of communities, right? So whether that's kind of in the tech startup world, whether that's in the employability world, but it just means that I'm close to people able to kind of have ongoing conversations and keep learning and where I can contribute back to those communities as well with the things I've learned or with the skills that I have that can then support someone else in their own journey as they're building their employability organization or as they're thinking about how they adopt AI in their organization or setting up as a startup founder, like whatever it is. So I think communities are a big deal from that perspective. think the biggest challenge for me is there are so many different communities.

So I've had to recently kind of really reflect on, which communities do I really need to be a part of and which ones do I not? And so I'm quite intentional now about making sure that I'm selected with the communities that I am part of so that I've got the time to pour into those communities rather than being a part of too many and then not really giving or getting anything from any of them, if that makes sense. So yeah.

Barrak (20:22)

I have one last question for you, Claudine. Digital Entrepreneur bringing back the joy to the entrepreneur's journey is a really important part of what we aim to do. So I'm curious to know what brings you joy, whether in business or in life.

Claudine (20:38)

In business, closing deals. Yes. But no, think beyond that, I mean, that is true. But also I think beyond that, we're like, everything we do and all the progress that we make. So if we're, you know, getting a new customer or we're growing within a customer and things like that, it's so directly linked to the impact we're having. So we're not able to grow or have more people join us as partners or expand within an organization that's used us for the last year or whatever, unless we're actually demonstrating that impact. And so when you hear the stories of front-line advisors saying that they can't imagine running a program without Early Birds in the future, or them turning around and saying, my goodness, I have dyslexia and so this whole time I've been massively struggling with my workload and now it's an absolute breeze and I can spend more time with my participants. Or even the participant stories where we've had somewhere they've kind of talked about being a care leaver and like going through so much in and out of courts and like all of this kind of really like traumatic experiences that they've never felt that they could open up that easily to when they're kind of in front of their advisor but having the conversation with an AI agent where they, because it's voice powered, right? So they can just have that conversation in that kind of natural natural language way and just felt that they were able to open up more than they've ever done before and all of that just means that their advisor is able to support them better. So it's just things like that when you hear those stories that brings me a lot of joy because it's like okay we're doing good work and we're on the right mission and we're moving in the right direction which is great.

That was the business side. In life, I've got a two year old, he turns two next week. Happy birthday. And just hearing him laugh brings me joy, he laughs a lot. yeah, just seeing his face, seeing him smile, hearing him laugh brings me a lot of joy.

Barrak (22:34)

Again, happy early birthday to your kiddo. And Claudine, thank you so much for chatting with me today. I think the work that you do is so important and so transformational. And I just wish you all the best and all the success with it.

Claudine (22:47)

Thank you. Thanks so much, Barrak.